Showing posts with label CAIRad hominem. Show all posts

Wednesday, January 4, 2012

Response to Keith: An Apologist For Islam

Response to Keith: An Apologist For Islam http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2011/12/30/bare-naked-islam-is-back-sort-of/

Bare Naked Islam is one of the great ani-Islamic blogs. I frequently find interesting information there. Unfortunately, WordPress is forcing it to close down as of January 6. Someone going by the screen name: "Keith" commented Sunday, using argumentum ad homimem. I did not respond directly to his comment, instead responding to another commenter. Keith's comment and mine are reproduced below.

Keith

January 1, 2012 at 7:52 PM

Not to put to much effort into giving you nuts a dose of reality but…THIS is NOT a First Amendment Issue…BNI does not HAVE a first amendment right in this issue because WordPress is privately owned. First amendment rights ONLY apply to Public forums and public areas. You can say what you want on a public sidewalk, more or less, but you cannot say it on MY yard. I have the right to get rid of you. WORDPRESS is not public property.
NOW as for TOS one only need read some of the comments to see that they would violate ANY website TOS with the language, the veiled threats and in some cases the calls for violence.
IF BNI goes elsewhere and does not better regulate the comment section it will be closed down again…that’s just reality…so if you people want this pile of islamophobic dog crap website to remain, stop being morons.

dajjal

January 2, 2012 at 4:00 AM

Mama Grizley, unfortunately Keith is right about the First Amendment issue, it applies to the Federal Gov’t., not to private entities. There might be a weak case for tortuous interference against CAIR, but their deep pockets could drag anyone through the courts for years, with little chance of prevailing.

Of course, Keith is totally wrong in his opinion of this blog, its commentators & content. Evidently he either did not read or could not comprehend the cut line on the banner. Given Noble Qur’an 8:39, 9:5, 9:29 & 9:123, there is no such thing as Islamophobia. Loathing of Islam is well warranted by the fatal facts: 270 million innocent victims in 1400 years.

Examine the arguments Keith used:

Ad Hominem:

you nuts

Keith labels the blog owner and commentators insane, without any basis in fact.

dose of reality

The numerous embedded videos at Bare Naked Islam reflect a grim reality: the true nature of Islam and practices of its adherents. Keith dismisses them with baseless derision.

islamophobic

Phobia implies irrational fear or loathing. There is nothing irrational about fear and loathing of Islam. We need look no further than Islamic scripture to find the proof of this fact.

3:151. We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they joined others in worship with Allâh, for which He had sent no authority; their abode will be the Fire and how evil is the abode of the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrongdoers).

8:12. (Remember) when your Lord inspired the angels, "Verily, I am with you, so keep firm those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved, so strike them over the necks, and smite over all their fingers and toes."

8:57. So if you gain the mastery over them in war, punish them severely in order to disperse those who are behind them, so that they may learn a lesson.

so as to strike terror
strike terror in those

8:60. And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war (tanks, planes, missiles, artillery, etc.) to threaten the enemy of Allâh and your enemy, and others besides whom, you may not know but whom Allâh does know. And whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allâh shall be repaid unto you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.

to strike terror
you terrorize/terrify with it God's enemy
Cause terror with this
you terrorize/terrify with it
to terrify
by which you may terrify
to put fear in
that you may instil fear
to cause fear
to put fear
that you may instil fear

33:26. And those of the people of the Scripture who backed them (the disbelievers) Allâh brought them down from their forts and cast terror into their hearts, (so that) a group (of them) you killed, and a group (of them) you made captives.

59:13. Verily, you (believers in the Oneness of Allâh - Islâmic Monotheism) are more awful as a fear in their (Jews of Banî An-Nadîr) breasts than Allâh. That is because they are a people who comprehend not (the Majesty and Power of Allâh).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

Allah sanctified terror, declared that he would cast terror and cast terror resulting in death, captivity & dispossession. Allah told Moe that the Jews were more afraid of him than of Allah. Moe bragged that terror made him victorious. The best estimate of Islam's victims is 270,000,000. The accusation of irrationality is malignant malarkey at its worst.

pile of dog crap

With more than 3000 pages, 3000 unique visitors per day and 110,000 page views per month, there must be a very large number of people interested in 'dog crap'. What drew Keith to read and comment on 'dog crap'?

morons

Morons can't stop being morons. Those born with substandard intellectual capacity can't increase it.

Facts

In sum, Keith has two valid factual arguments about the First Amendment and blog terms of service. The rest is baseless insult. Unfortunately for Keith, the facts are arrayed on our side, not his.

Keith subsequently returned to spew more venom. Take a close look:

Keith

January 3, 2012 at 10:03 AM

Jugger, the problem is BNI does NOT post fact. BNI posts opinions that are ALWAYS geared against Islam…so not honest at all…it wouldbe good if the same was done against Judaism and Christianity and the other religions…but ONLY Islam gets this dishonest treatement…the question is why?

posts

BNI posts news stories, mostly containing video evidence of the reality of Islam. BNI and readers comment on those news stories. Nobody compels anyone to read those posts or comments. Anyone who does not like them can close the tab or window and seek more satisfying web sites.

always against Islam

There are no facts in favor of Islam. Islam's own canon of scripture, tradition, exegesis & jurisprudence defines Islam as a barbarian war cult, a continuing criminal enterprise disguised as a religion. BNI exposes the grim reality of Islam, it makes no pretense of balance, it takes a side.

Tu quoque

Judaism & Christianity do not have scriptural imperatives to genocidal global conquest. The Judaic conquest imperative was limited to Canaan, once that conquest was finished, Israel's battles were defensive, not offensive. No matter how long or intensely you search the Gospels and Book of Acts, you will not find, in the New Testament, Jesus issuing functional equivalents of NQ 2:256, 3:151, 8:12, 8:57, 8:60, 8:67, 9:5, 9:29, 9:111, 9:120 & 9:123. You will not find Jesus making a declaration equivalent to Sahih Bukhari 1.8.367. Note to high functioning Morons: parables & metaphors do not cut the mustard:

Luke 19:9-27 does not cut the mustard because it is a parable, not an imperative. Matt 10:34 does not cut the mustard, it is a metaphor for personal relationships, not a war imperative. [http://infidelsunited.com/documents/2944/163/standing-challenge-to-muslims]

dishonest

Exactly what has BNI posted that is not factually true? Point out the lies and show your evidence to prove that they are lies.

only Islam

Where is the Christian genocidal conquest imperative? Where are Christians, emulating Jesus by abductions, murders & mass casualty attacks against non-combatant civilians? Anyone thus engaged would be acting in contravention of the teachings of Jesus, not in emulation & obedience.

Keith

January 3, 2012 at 10:07 AM

Christopher…Islam is no more a threat to the constitution than any other religion that people want to force upon us instead of the constitution…something MANY Christians for instance have been very vocal about…yet no one says anything about THESE radicals. Let’s be clear on facts for you…Islam is a religion…your incorrect opinion that it is not is irrelevant. ACCORDING to the Constituion, they have freedom of religion just like anyone else with the same limits as everyone else…if you don’t like this, then feel free to leave.

Christian Constitutional threat

This nation was founded by Christians, as a non-sectarian government. The establishment clause of the First Amendment is there for good reason, there was sufficient experience with sectarianism in Europe and the colonies. .

Constitutional threat

BNI frequently quotes a leader of CAIR declaring a desire to see Shari'ah supplant the Constitution. Our organic documents enshrine and protect human dignity, equality, liberty and rights. The Constitution is man made law, which Islam arbitrarily rejects. Islam demands imposition of Allah's law: Shari'ah, what Moe preached and exemplified. In the last thirty years, 50 trial and appellate decisions have involved conflicts between Shari;ah and the Constitution & l;aws of the United States.

Islam is not a religion

Islam is a continuing criminal enterprise disguised as a religion. Its mission is mercenary and its method is martial. The 'original religion' of Islam is jihad.

Sunan Abu Dawud Book 23, Number 3455:

Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar:

I heard the Apostle of Allah, (peace_be_upon_him) say: When you enter into the inah transaction, hold the tails of oxen, are pleased with agriculture, and give up conducting jihad (struggle in the way of Allah). Allah will make disgrace prevail over you, and will not withdraw it until you return to your original religion.

O9.0: Jihad

(O: Jihad means to war against non-Muslims, and is etymologically derived from the word mujahada signifying warfare to establish the religion. And it is the lesser jihad. As for the greater jihad, it is spiritual warfare against the lower self (nafs), which is why the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said as he was returning from jihad.

``We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad.''

The scriptural basis for jihad, prior to scholarly consensus (def: b7) is such Koranic verses as:

-1- ``Fighting is prescribed for you'' (Koran 2:216);

-2- ``Slay them wherever you find them'' (Koran 4:89);

-3- ``Fight the idolators utterly'' (Koran 9:36);

and such hadiths as the one related by Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:

``I have been commanded to fight people until they testify that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and perform the prayer, and pay zakat. If they say it, they have saved their blood and possessions from me, except for the rights of Islam over them. And their final reckoning is with Allah'';

and the hadith reported by Muslim,

``To go forth in the morning or evening to fight in the path of Allah is better than the whole world and everything in it.''Details concerning jihad are found in the accounts of the military expeditions of the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), including his own martial forays and those on which he dispatched others. The former consist of the ones he personally attended, some twenty-seven (others say twenty-nine) of them. He fought in eight of them, and killed only one person with his noble hand, Ubayy ibn Khalaf, at the battle of Uhud. On the latter expeditions he sent others to fight, himself remaining at Medina, and these were forty-seven in number.)

freedom of religion

Freedom of religion is for religions, not continuing criminal enterprises. Islam entails genocidal conquest. It can not be properly practiced without engaging in genocidal conquest. If there is a right to practice Islam, than all our human rights are abrogated. Rather than repeat the obvious, I direct doubters & dissenters to full documentation of the fatal facts.

Keith

January 3, 2012 at 10:09 AM

Claes, BNI has no stand to sue…Wordpress is not owned by the public, it is privately owned, as such the First Amendment does not apply. They are free to create their own rules (TOS) and enforce them as they see fit…BNI agreed to this when creating the BLOG.

legal standing

WordPress, acting of its own free will, can enforce their TOS against BNI. If CAIR interfered in the relationship between BNI and WordPress, then there might be a cause for litigation.

If an agency of the federal government, acting under color of the Istanbul Process for implementing HRC Res 16/18, prevailed on WordPress to sanction BNI, then there would be a clear First Amendment issue. In either case, proving tortuous interference would probably be an insurmountable barrier.

Keith

January 3, 2012 at 10:25 AM

Natalie let’s clear up a few things since you’re obviously confused. I have stated other places that I am not Muslim. I am not Christian, I am not Jewish, I in fact follow NO religion. Thre reason is simple, religion is nonsense. It is a sedative for the weak and small minded that need to believe they are special, and that some invisible mythological sky bully is up in the clouds and watching them…nonsense.

Now that, THAT is cleared up lets move on. I am not a wimp at all, and have stood up to bullies my whole life, even doing so when I SERVED this nation in the United States Navy…that’s right ass clowns, I’m a vet. I served with Jews, Christians, Muslims, and even a Druid or two, and learned a lot about their respective religions and the nonsense they believe. One thing I learned with respect to Islam is that RADICAL ISLAM is not true Islam. Radical Islam is Islam’s version of the KKK.

Now ignoring terrorism, sinec MOST Muslims do not believe in it, and moving on to your other complaints about the crimes committed against men, women, and children, I feel the same outrage as I do when I hear about Mormons marrying children, Or Orthodox Jews spitting on little girls and calling them whores. Or Christian’s shooting doctors because they perform abortions. I know that these people are committing their crimes, their acts of “BULLYING” and using their religion as justificiation. I don’t hold the religion responsible for the acts of idiots.

I would REMIND you, child, that Muslims defend you EVERY DAY serving willfully and honorably in the military. The only ones that make the news however are the ones that do something bad (see ft hood)

And when a Muslim deos something good no one sees, listens, or cares, like the muslim that alerted police to a something suspicious in New York a few years ago that turned out to be a bomb.

The fact is that there are BAD CRIMES committed everyday and none of them have anything to do with religion. People do not do bad things because they are muslim, they do bad things because they are bad people. They use their religion as justification but that does not mean the relgion actually condones it. There have been dozens of Fatwas (spelling) against the things you’re complaining about, something you’d know if you did some research, but people still do bad things claiming it is in the name of islam.

The sad fact is that there are TOO MANY people like you. People not grown up enough, or experienced enough, or educated enough to know what the world is really like and what people are really like. IF ISLAM vanished tomorrow, all the horrible things would stillhappen, they’d just use a different excuse.

SO, until you are READY to condemn Christianity, Judaism, and the REST of the religions out there for the terrorist acts committed in THEIR supposed name, stop singling out Islam because you don’t like it.

As for your childish accusation of me being a pedophile, I’ll just forgive it and chalk it up you your obvious youth and ignorance.

Radical Islam

There is no such entity! As a wise man wrote: "Its Islam, stupid!". Islam has a standard, set by Moe's preaching & practice, which are recorded in the Qur'an & hadith.

terrorism

I don't give a damn how many Muslims believe in it or abjure it. Terrorism is an inseverable intrinsic sacrament of Islam. "I will cast terror, "Allah cast terror" "I have been made victorious with terror" Islam is all or nothing, a package deal: "Then do you believe in a part of the Scripture and reject the rest?" . "Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad) you have a good example to follow". "...nor they take any step to raise the anger of disbelievers nor inflict any injury upon an enemy but is written to their credit as a deed of righteousness." The arrogance of these liars who defend the indefensible is infuriating! Any step taken to injure or enrage a disbeliever is a deed of righteousess!!! That says it all, putting the lie to the Moronic protestations of innocent, moderate Islam.

Three thousand people are dead and thousands more injured because the magnificent nineteen believed Allah's threat & promise, implementing his accursed imperative. Ain't that sufficient?

Keith

January 3, 2012 at 10:32 AM

Dajjal I am of course not wrong…I’m simply, based on the errors in your posting, smarter and better educated than you are. OR you are a LIAR…you get to choose.

TO CLAIM that there is no such thing as Islamophobia is a BOLD FACED FALSE statement. To claim there is no such thing as islamophobia is the same as claiming there is no such thing as racism, or sexism, etc etc. You think by denying its existance it gives you license to engage in it.

It doesn’t.

It does exist and you are one such person that engages in it.

You want to continue to be part of the problem? Then keep lying like the rest of these childish cowards and dullards.

IF YOU want to truly be part of some kind of solution then the first thing you have to do is recognize your own failings, and dismiss your phobia, and THEN engage the very people you falsely judge and get their help….that’s how you make solutions…not by lying about people you know nothing about.

As for teh number of people killed by Islam, I find your numbers to be nonsense….and if you want to play that game, how many killed by the terrorists of Christianity, or the VILLANS of Judaism…play fair boy, or don’t play.

smarter

I have a tested verbal IQ of 140. I have 140 hours of college credit with a GPA of 3.25.

liar

You called BNI a pile of dog excrement. In fact, it is a blog, with plenty of well documented facts and opinions based on those facts. I did not fabricate anything or tell any lies in my reply to Mama Grizley's comment. In this response to your comments, I have quoted the Qur'an, hadith and Islamic law, in each case I have supplied links so that readers can verify the authenticity of the quotes and explore the context. You have personal attacks, diversions and false, ignorant assertions. I have relevant, verifiable, well documented facts.

Islamophobia

I took that lie apart and disproved it with factual evidence in a previous paragraph. Click the linked heading to review the details.

part of the problem

The problem is Islam, a set of doctrines which sanctifies men's worst impulses, sanctioning barbarity in the 'service of god'. I am not part of that problem, I am exposing the problem. BNI exposes Islam with video evidence. I expose it with textual evidence from Islam's canon.

lying

Islam is a lie, told by a liar. Moe did not receive divine inspiration or revelation, he took advantage of hallucinations and issued situational scripture to permit himself to sin. Refer to the following documents for the gritty details.

number of victims

The number is not mine, the statistic was compiled by someone else. Only Islam has an open ended, unlimited genocide imperative. 8:39 & 9:29 are fight until loops of global scale, terminated only by total global conquest and subjugation. 8:67 makes "great slaughter" Moe's price of admission to Allah's celestial bordello. 47:4 tells Moe not to take prisoners until he has "killed and wounded many of them.

Christian terrorists

Show me the New Testament book, chapter & verse wherein Jesus Christ sanctions, sanctifies and exemplifies terrorism. Christians acting like Muslims would be contravening Christ's teaching and example, obeying Allah and emulating Moe instead of Christ.

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My Favorite Speeches and Other Items of Interest

George Bush's March 28, 2007 Discusses Economy, War on Terror During Remarks to the National Cattlemen's Beef Association;http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/03/20070328-2.html
Mitch McConnell's March 15, 2007 Funding For Troops, Not Timelines for Retreat; http://mcconnell.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=270747&start=1
Ronald Reagan's June 12, 1987 Tear Down This Wall Speech; http://www.reaganfoundation.org/reagan/speeches/wall.asp
Vice President Cheney's March 12, 2007 Remarks at the AIPAC 2007 Policy Conference; http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/03/20070312.html

Winston Churchill Quotes

A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him.
Although personally I am quite content with existing explosives, I feel we must not stand in the path of improvement.
Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed.
Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference.
Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver. The greater the general, the more he contributes in maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter.
Danger - if you meet it promptly and without flinching - you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!
I always seem to get inspiration and renewed vitality by contact with this great novel land of yours which sticks up out of the Atlantic.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.
I like a man who grins when he fights.
I was only the servant of my country and had I, at any moment, failed to express her unflinching resolve to fight and conquer, I should at once have been rightly cast aside.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time-a tremendous whack.
In war as in life, it is often necessary when some cherished scheme has failed, to take up the best alternative open, and if so, it is folly not to work for it with all your might.
It is no use saying, 'We are doing our best.' You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.
Moral of the Work. In war: resolution. In defeat: defiance. In victory: magnanimity. In peace: goodwill.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
Never, never, never give up.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism.
One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
The first quality that is needed is audacity.
The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go.
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
There is no such thing as public opinion. There is only published opinion.
These are not dark days: these are great days - the greatest days our country has ever lived.
They are decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent.
True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information.
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
War is mainly a catalogue of blunders.
We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.
We shall draw from the heart of suffering itself the means of inspiration and survival.
When the eagles are silent the parrots begin to jabber.
When you are winning a war almost everything that happens can be claimed to be right and wise.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Ronald Reagan Quotes

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so."
Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have.
All the waste in a year from a nuclear power plant can be stored under a desk.
Approximately 80% of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by vegetation, so let's not go overboard in setting and enforcing tough emission standards from man-made sources
Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.
Double, no triple, our troubles and we'd still be better off than any other people on earth. It is time that we recognized that ours was, in truth, a noble cause.
Facts are stupid things.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
Governments tend not to solve problems, only to rearrange them.
History teaches that war begins when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap.
How can a president not be an actor?
How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
I have wondered at times what the Ten Commandments would have looked like if Moses had run them through the US Congress.
I will stand on, and continue to use, the figures I have used, because I believe they are correct. Now, I'm not going to deny that you don't now and then slip up on something; no one bats a thousand.
In Israel, free men and women are every day demonstrating the power of courage and faith. Back in 1948 when Israel was founded, pundits claimed the new country could never survive. Today, no one questions that. Israel is a land of stability and democracy in a region of tryanny and unrest.
Let us ask ourselves; "What kind of people do we think we are?".
Man is not free unless government is limited.
My philosophy of life is that if we make up our mind what we are going to make of our lives, then work hard toward that goal, we never lose - somehow we win out.
No mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology.
Of the four wars in my lifetime, none came about because the U.S. was too strong.
Our forbearance should never be misunderstood. Our reluctance for conflict should not be misjudged as a failure of will. When action is required to preserve our national security, we will act.
Protecting the rights of even the least individual among us is basically the only excuse the government has for even existing.
Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.
The ultimate determinant in the struggle now going on for the world will not be bombs and rockets but a test of wills and ideas - a trial of spiritual resolve: the values we hold, the beliefs we cherish and the ideals to which we are dedicated.
The United Sates has much to offer the third world war.
There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.
To paraphrase Winston Churchill, I did not take the oath I have just taken with the intention of presiding over the dissolution of the world's strongest economy.
Today we did what we had to do. They counted on America to be passive. They counted wrong.
We are never defeated unless we give up on God.
We have the duty to protect the life of an unborn child.
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we will always be free.
Within the covers of the Bible are the answers for all the problems men face.
You know, if I listened to Michael Dukakis long enough, I would be convinced we're in an economic downturn and people are homeless and going without food and medical attention and that we've got to do something about the unemployed.