Imam Rauf's Veilled Threat
The Imam behind the Ground Zero Mosque of Triumph, Feisal Abdul Rauf, issued a thinly veiled threat in an interview with The Larry King Show. The Washington post included a video clip in their article., headlined: "Imam Rauf: National security hinges on Mosque debate".
The Post placed this quote above the video: "Our national security now hinges on how we negotiate this, how we speak about it."
This was a particularly difficult interview to transcribe because both the interviewer and interviewee spoke rapidly and with soft voices. The video buffers too slowly on my connection, my eustachian tubes were not clearing, and my hearing aids are incompatible with my headset. I had to use the telecoils, and my monitor is louder than my headset. I did not get everything, but this should be close enough to convey the important meaning.
..."But I also have a responsibility. If we move from that location the story will be that the radicals have taken over the discourse, the headline in the Islamic world will be that Islam is under attack. And I am less concerned by the radicals in America than I am concerned by the radicals in the Muslim world. ... the danger from the radicals in the MW to our national security--to the nationals security of our troops- I have a niece who works in the Army in [inaudible] Iraq-- the concern for American citizens who live and work and travel overseas will increasingly be compromised if the radicals are strengthened.
If we do move it, it will strengthen the argument of the radicals to recruit and their increasing aggression. The idea of [inaudible] is to create something like a Muslim Y. The YMCA was created one hundred and thirty years ago. to improve relationships between what was then called the American protestant religions by having young men and young women, of course they were separate at that time; YMCA/YWCA, common bond you know, by doing sports together and other programs together. [inaudible]
And that second street Y was an attempt by the Jewish community to create a center where you'd create that kind of bonding. We are now, today, where the Jewish community and the Catholic community was maybe seventy years ago, a century ago and this is our time; our turn to do that.
(What's on the table now?)
The biggest issue is the national security issue.
(How do you pull out without looking like you've lost?)
Without making it look both in this country and in the Muslim world. You must remember that what we do is watched all over the world. And we are very engaged with the Muslim world. And our security is really number one, our national security, our personal security is extremely important. And this issue has become now a national security issue. And therefore in our conversations, in our decision making process, we have to weigh many many factors and that has been dominant among them.
(Is there a middle ground that has you pull out of the center and do something else? that's what it sounds like you are saying.) We are discussing many things right now but, you know, we haven't found yet an option that would work in a safe way.
(What are ... what you are considering?)
As I said,. we consider everything in life. but we have to be very cautious here because the voices of the radicals have ratcheted up and we must make sure that the moderates take over the conversation.
(Given what you know now, would you have built?)
As I mentioned it, this story is not new. People knew about it. ...(Right, but given what you know now would you have said 'listen, lets not do it there because...' because it sounds like you are saying, in retrospect , you wouldn't have done it? )
Well,yes, if...if...(You would not have done it?)
If I knew this would happen, this would cause this kind of pain, I wouldn't have done it. My life has been devoted to peace making,
(...There are so many people who say... if you are saying it was a mistake, then why can't you get out of it and not do it?)
because we have to now make sure that whatever we do actually results in greater peace, not in greater conflict.
(Why do you think this structure is causing all this controversy now? )
Well there is a certain amount of anti-Islamic sentiment in this country (what now?) and we have seen it in the attacks upon mosques in various parts of the country in the last several weeks. So it is clear that this issue is not just about our center which is an attempt to create peace between Muslims and non-Muslims but this has aroused a certain anti-Islam sentiment which is unfortunate in this country--we need to look at it and have a discourse about it and make sure this does not dominate the discourse between us because Americans believe fundamentally and in a very fundamental strong way about freedom of religion, about separation of governments and churches, in separation of church and state which means the power of the government should not be used to coerce people to believe in any religion but it should be used to defend and protect religious rights and freedoms. So this is the conversation we need to have right now.
(Lets talk about money: one hundred million dollars is the price tag for this Islamic cultural center, where are you going to get the money?)
Well we have yet to raise a capital campaign...(You have no money for it yet?)
We haven't raised any money for it yet. .
(Where will you get the money?)
We'll get the money from whatever sources we can, domestically especially, and be very transparent about how we raise the money. This has been something that we have committed ourselves to . (Meaning you will list whoever is giving you money?) Yes. ( Will you turn down money from people who give money to say, HAMAS?) Absolutely. (No question about it; anyone who gives money to HAMAS can not give money to you ?) We will do whatever is absolutely correct and legal and safe thing to do.
(Which means what exactly? Because that's an extra condition?) You see, I'm the visionary behind it, I'm not the actual builder, I'm not the financial expert, I'm not the legal expert on these things, but I have a vision here of establishing something which I know, in my heart of hearts, will be a powerful instrument of peace.
( Who would you not take money from, who would you say no to, who would you turn away?)
We would turn it from anybody who was deemed to be a danger to this process. (People I think, here in New York and around the country would say ' that is sacred land, that is a special place for everyone in America-- is that a step toward peace?) As Clyde Haberman [sp?] and many many people have said, "look what exists in that neighborhood", look what exists around the corner. ( Oh, I believe you, I've lived downtown, so I know the neighborhood very well. )
So lets be clear, calling this particular block sacred ground is and what exists there... you know...(strip clubs and delis, I've been there a million times, but I think when people call it sacred ground, they're saying something terrible happened on this spot and and we've...)
We've got to be fair you can't say a place that has strip joints is sacred ground. We've got to be just, we've got to speak the truth we've got to have justice for everybody, we're a country of justice for all, not just for non-Muslims only or some groups and not for others This is what America is all about, Solidad. We've got to really mean what we say and say what our values are truly about.
This isn't... the discourse has been hijacked by people who say "no".
(you've heard about this Pastor in Florida, Terry Jones,who is proposing burning Qur'ans on 9/11, what do you think of that?)
I would plead with him to seriously consider what he is doing. (Why?) Its going to feed to the radicals in the Muslim world. Its dangerous, General Petraeus has said that. It is something that is not the right thing to do on that ground. ...
.
(Do you think he has a right to do it?)
And more importantly, well, we have freedom in this country, freedom of speech, but with freedom comes responsibility. It is a famous saying to shout fire in a crowded theatre, this is dangerous for our national security, and also the un-Christian thing to do. Jesus Christ didn't teach us to do that, we Muslims have a ... we look to the example of our Prophet- to our Prophet's sunnah. Many Christians say, 'What would Jesus do"
Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, Jesus taught us to love your enemy, we are not your enemies. This is what Jesus taught us to do, and I would like to suggest that you know--we all have to live by the highest principles of our faith traditions
If we do move it, it will strengthen the argument of the radicals to recruit and their increasing aggression. The idea of [inaudible] is to create something like a Muslim Y. The YMCA was created one hundred and thirty years ago. to improve relationships between what was then called the American protestant religions by having young men and young women, of course they were separate at that time; YMCA/YWCA, common bond you know, by doing sports together and other programs together. [inaudible]
And that second street Y was an attempt by the Jewish community to create a center where you'd create that kind of bonding. We are now, today, where the Jewish community and the Catholic community was maybe seventy years ago, a century ago and this is our time; our turn to do that.
(What's on the table now?)
The biggest issue is the national security issue.
(How do you pull out without looking like you've lost?)
Without making it look both in this country and in the Muslim world. You must remember that what we do is watched all over the world. And we are very engaged with the Muslim world. And our security is really number one, our national security, our personal security is extremely important. And this issue has become now a national security issue. And therefore in our conversations, in our decision making process, we have to weigh many many factors and that has been dominant among them.
(Is there a middle ground that has you pull out of the center and do something else? that's what it sounds like you are saying.) We are discussing many things right now but, you know, we haven't found yet an option that would work in a safe way.
(What are ... what you are considering?)
As I said,. we consider everything in life. but we have to be very cautious here because the voices of the radicals have ratcheted up and we must make sure that the moderates take over the conversation.
(Given what you know now, would you have built?)
As I mentioned it, this story is not new. People knew about it. ...(Right, but given what you know now would you have said 'listen, lets not do it there because...' because it sounds like you are saying, in retrospect , you wouldn't have done it? )
Well,yes, if...if...(You would not have done it?)
If I knew this would happen, this would cause this kind of pain, I wouldn't have done it. My life has been devoted to peace making,
(...There are so many people who say... if you are saying it was a mistake, then why can't you get out of it and not do it?)
because we have to now make sure that whatever we do actually results in greater peace, not in greater conflict.
(Why do you think this structure is causing all this controversy now? )
Well there is a certain amount of anti-Islamic sentiment in this country (what now?) and we have seen it in the attacks upon mosques in various parts of the country in the last several weeks. So it is clear that this issue is not just about our center which is an attempt to create peace between Muslims and non-Muslims but this has aroused a certain anti-Islam sentiment which is unfortunate in this country--we need to look at it and have a discourse about it and make sure this does not dominate the discourse between us because Americans believe fundamentally and in a very fundamental strong way about freedom of religion, about separation of governments and churches, in separation of church and state which means the power of the government should not be used to coerce people to believe in any religion but it should be used to defend and protect religious rights and freedoms. So this is the conversation we need to have right now.
(Lets talk about money: one hundred million dollars is the price tag for this Islamic cultural center, where are you going to get the money?)
Well we have yet to raise a capital campaign...(You have no money for it yet?)
We haven't raised any money for it yet. .
(Where will you get the money?)
We'll get the money from whatever sources we can, domestically especially, and be very transparent about how we raise the money. This has been something that we have committed ourselves to . (Meaning you will list whoever is giving you money?) Yes. ( Will you turn down money from people who give money to say, HAMAS?) Absolutely. (No question about it; anyone who gives money to HAMAS can not give money to you ?) We will do whatever is absolutely correct and legal and safe thing to do.
(Which means what exactly? Because that's an extra condition?) You see, I'm the visionary behind it, I'm not the actual builder, I'm not the financial expert, I'm not the legal expert on these things, but I have a vision here of establishing something which I know, in my heart of hearts, will be a powerful instrument of peace.
( Who would you not take money from, who would you say no to, who would you turn away?)
We would turn it from anybody who was deemed to be a danger to this process. (People I think, here in New York and around the country would say ' that is sacred land, that is a special place for everyone in America-- is that a step toward peace?) As Clyde Haberman [sp?] and many many people have said, "look what exists in that neighborhood", look what exists around the corner. ( Oh, I believe you, I've lived downtown, so I know the neighborhood very well. )
So lets be clear, calling this particular block sacred ground is and what exists there... you know...(strip clubs and delis, I've been there a million times, but I think when people call it sacred ground, they're saying something terrible happened on this spot and and we've...)
We've got to be fair you can't say a place that has strip joints is sacred ground. We've got to be just, we've got to speak the truth we've got to have justice for everybody, we're a country of justice for all, not just for non-Muslims only or some groups and not for others This is what America is all about, Solidad. We've got to really mean what we say and say what our values are truly about.
This isn't... the discourse has been hijacked by people who say "no".
(you've heard about this Pastor in Florida, Terry Jones,who is proposing burning Qur'ans on 9/11, what do you think of that?)
I would plead with him to seriously consider what he is doing. (Why?) Its going to feed to the radicals in the Muslim world. Its dangerous, General Petraeus has said that. It is something that is not the right thing to do on that ground. ...
.
(Do you think he has a right to do it?)
And more importantly, well, we have freedom in this country, freedom of speech, but with freedom comes responsibility. It is a famous saying to shout fire in a crowded theatre, this is dangerous for our national security, and also the un-Christian thing to do. Jesus Christ didn't teach us to do that, we Muslims have a ... we look to the example of our Prophet- to our Prophet's sunnah. Many Christians say, 'What would Jesus do"
Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek, Jesus taught us to love your enemy, we are not your enemies. This is what Jesus taught us to do, and I would like to suggest that you know--we all have to live by the highest principles of our faith traditions
- "If we move from that location the story will be that the radicals have taken over the discourse"
- "the headline in the Islamic world will be that Islam is under attack."
- "I am concerned by the radicals in the Muslim world. "...
- "the danger from the radicals in the MW to our national security"
Muslims are taught that any step taken to injure or anger us is imputed to their credit as a deed of righteousness, to be weighed against their sins on Judgment Day. You'd learn that fun fact in 9:120, if you'd read that damn Qur'an instead of ignoring or burning it. They don't need any incentive from us to attack us.
- "If we do move it, it will strengthen the argument of the radicals to recruit and their increasing aggression."
- "The YMCA was created one hundred and thirty years ago. to improve relationships between what was then called the American protestant religions"...
- "We are now, today, where the Jewish community and the Catholic community was maybe seventy years ago, a century ago and this is our time; our turn to do that."
- "The biggest issue is the national security issue."
- "You must remember that what we do is watched all over the world."
- this issue has become now a national security issue.
- "we haven't found yet an option that would work in a safe way"
- "we have to be very cautious here because the voices of the radicals have ratcheted up and we must make sure that the moderates take over the conversation"
Did anything escape your attention in that quote? Look again. Who is Rauf concerned with? Only Muslims; our perceptions, attitudes, feelings and interests don't count, they are not under consideration. He ain't interested in anyone but Muslims.
- "If I knew this would happen, this would cause this kind of pain, I wouldn't have done it. My life has been devoted to peace making,"
- "we have to now make sure that whatever we do actually results in greater peace, not in greater conflict."
- "there is a certain amount of anti-Islamic sentiment in this country"
- " it is clear that this issue is not just about our center"
- "make sure this does not dominate the discourse between us because Americans believe fundamentally and in a very fundamental strong way about freedom of religion, about separation of governments and churches, in separation of church and state which means the power of the government should not be used to coerce people to believe in any religion but it should be used to defend and protect religious rights and freedoms."
How is it possible to have a discourse not dominated by the fact that your demon demands that you conquer and subjugate us? Freedom of religion means that we can choose any religion or none at all. Islam demands that it have a monopoly, that only Allah be worshiped. The two are not compatible, they are polar opposites.
Separation of Church and state means that the two institutions are independent, they do not interfere in each other's affairs. Islam demands that all law be Allah's law, Shari'ah, not man made legislation. That is the polar opposite of separation of church and state. Freedom of religion and separation of church and state do not serve as your license to wage war on us or dominate us by out breeding us, subversion & sedition.
- ( Will you turn down money from people who give money to say, HAMAS?) "Absolutely". (No question about it; anyone who gives money to HAMAS can not give money to you ?) "We will do whatever is absolutely correct and legal and safe thing to do."
- "We would turn it from anybody who was deemed to be a danger to this process."
Giving money to HAMAS is illegal. Taking money from HAMAS donors is not illegal. Their willingness to donate to you as well as to HAMAS tells us who & what you are. The fact that you want to disassociate yourself from them provides the same information. But we already knew that you are Muslims. What constitutes a "danger to this process" ? The implication is that you would reject money from anyone whose reputation or associations would impair your false image of peaceful moderation.
- "We've got to be fair you can't say a place that has strip joints is sacred ground."
If your loved one and colleagues were murdered by assassins motivated by the damnable doctrines of an accursed war cult, what is the effect on your psyche of the erection, on the site where the ash and smoke of your loved one settled, of a shrine where the war cult's devotees will remind their demon seventeen times every day of how your loved one and you have "earned" his wrath & "gone astray"; a place where they will curse us and supplicate their demon for "victory over the disbelieving folk"? Does that or does that not impair the sanctity of the site more than a strip club around the corner?
- "I would plead with him to seriously consider what he is doing. (Why?) Its going to feed to the radicals in the Muslim world. Its dangerous, General Petraeus has said that. It is something that is not the right thing to do on that ground. ..."
- 'What would Jesus do"
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