MBVD: Interrogation and Torture: False Equivalence

Tuesday, May 26, 2009

Interrogation and Torture: False Equivalence

Jim has commented on Obamination: National Insecurity.

If waterboarding is not torture than why did we treat those who did it to our troops as war criminals in WWII? All your reasoning is in fact anti-law and anti-American. I suggest you re-consider your stand on this.

The "waterboarding" performed by convicted Japanese took two forms. One form was similar to that used by the CIA, but had two significant differences. The Japanese continued the treatment until their victim had a belly full of water, then they beat him or stomped his belly. Did the CIA fill Khalid Sheikh Mohammad with water? Did they beat him? Did they stomp him?

The second form involved tieing the victim to a ladder, with his throat up against a rung and his head hanging below the ladder. In that position he was dunked in a tub of water, submerged until he passed out. The victim was then revived and immersed again.

My source for that information is a post at Investor's Hub. In this Times Online article, linked in that forum post, a British officer who survived the water torture describes his experience. If you would like to know more about the torture performed by the Japanese who were convicted and hung, summon up all your intestinal fortitude and click this link.

Critical elements of the Japanese torture are missing from the CIA waterboarding, which was carried out with medical supervision and monitoring and did not involve saturation, beating or other physical injuries.

Jim is comparing interrogation to torture, ignoring the details which differentiate the two practices. It is obvious that he is ignorantly or maliciously repeating enemy propaganda. The moralistic tone of his comment leads me to conclude that he acts out of malice, not ignorance.

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SOLDIER"S ANGELS NEEDS YOUR HELP!

The Veterans Hospital in Tucson needs our help!!! They have contacted Soldiers' Angels with a list of needs for their patients. Soldiers Angels needs your help in making some of these come true.

Below you will find just a small portion of needs that are immediate. You can also find this list posted on the Soldiers Angels Forum at www.soldiersangelsforum.com you will be able to find lots of great information there for our deployed and vets.

If you are sending a monetary donation please follow the link and indicate the State you are in.

Donate here;
Ttp://soldiersangels.org/index.php?page=veterans-support

COMFORT ITEMS- $350/MO
Dry Skin Cream
Slipper Socks-No skid
Catheter bag covers
Shaving Cream
Hand Lotion
Baby Shampoo
Hand Soap
Roll on/Spray Deodorant
Denture Cleaner
Underwear (men and women (all sizes)
Toothbrushes
Denture Grip
Socks (white)
Talcum Powder
Nail Clippers
Toothpaste
Ladies hand and body lotion
Backpacks
Disposable Razors
Comb/Brushes
Shawls
Shaving Cream/small
Knitted Caps
Travel Alarm Clocks
Ball Caps
Tote Bags
Shower Shoes
Pocket Size Needle and Thread Kit
Heart pillows for cardiac patients
Lap Robes (3x5 or 5x7)

GUEST SERVICES
30 cup coffee makers
Coffee supplies (reg. & decaf)
Music CDs
Stamps
Writing Paper and Envelopes
Prepaid Phone Cards for patients’

RECREATION
Puzzle books
Crossword Puzzles
Pencils
Video tapes & DVDs (movies, educational)
DVD Player

Sports equipment (basketball, tennis rackets &
Tickets for entertainment & sporting events
Balls, badminton set, Frisbees, football)

If you can send just one item that would be great!!! If each person sends one thing we will make a difference! They are also needing those who can volunteer time at the hospital just contact the Voluntary Services Dept. For information.

Mail Items to:

Department of Veterans Affairs Southern Arizona VA Health Care System – Voluntary Services 9-135, 3601 S. Sixth Avenue, Tucson, AZ 85723

PLEASE HELP US HELP THOSE WHO FOUGHT FOR OUR FREEDOM!

My Favorite Speeches and Other Items of Interest

George Bush's March 28, 2007 Discusses Economy, War on Terror During Remarks to the National Cattlemen's Beef Association;http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/03/20070328-2.html
Mitch McConnell's March 15, 2007 Funding For Troops, Not Timelines for Retreat; http://mcconnell.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=270747&start=1
Ronald Reagan's June 12, 1987 Tear Down This Wall Speech; http://www.reaganfoundation.org/reagan/speeches/wall.asp
Vice President Cheney's March 12, 2007 Remarks at the AIPAC 2007 Policy Conference; http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/03/20070312.html

Winston Churchill Quotes

A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him.
Although personally I am quite content with existing explosives, I feel we must not stand in the path of improvement.
Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed.
Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference.
Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver. The greater the general, the more he contributes in maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter.
Danger - if you meet it promptly and without flinching - you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!
I always seem to get inspiration and renewed vitality by contact with this great novel land of yours which sticks up out of the Atlantic.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.
I like a man who grins when he fights.
I was only the servant of my country and had I, at any moment, failed to express her unflinching resolve to fight and conquer, I should at once have been rightly cast aside.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time-a tremendous whack.
In war as in life, it is often necessary when some cherished scheme has failed, to take up the best alternative open, and if so, it is folly not to work for it with all your might.
It is no use saying, 'We are doing our best.' You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.
Moral of the Work. In war: resolution. In defeat: defiance. In victory: magnanimity. In peace: goodwill.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
Never, never, never give up.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism.
One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
The first quality that is needed is audacity.
The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go.
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
There is no such thing as public opinion. There is only published opinion.
These are not dark days: these are great days - the greatest days our country has ever lived.
They are decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent.
True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information.
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
War is mainly a catalogue of blunders.
We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.
We shall draw from the heart of suffering itself the means of inspiration and survival.
When the eagles are silent the parrots begin to jabber.
When you are winning a war almost everything that happens can be claimed to be right and wise.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Ronald Reagan Quotes

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so."
Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have.
All the waste in a year from a nuclear power plant can be stored under a desk.
Approximately 80% of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by vegetation, so let's not go overboard in setting and enforcing tough emission standards from man-made sources
Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.
Double, no triple, our troubles and we'd still be better off than any other people on earth. It is time that we recognized that ours was, in truth, a noble cause.
Facts are stupid things.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
Governments tend not to solve problems, only to rearrange them.
History teaches that war begins when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap.
How can a president not be an actor?
How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
I have wondered at times what the Ten Commandments would have looked like if Moses had run them through the US Congress.
I will stand on, and continue to use, the figures I have used, because I believe they are correct. Now, I'm not going to deny that you don't now and then slip up on something; no one bats a thousand.
In Israel, free men and women are every day demonstrating the power of courage and faith. Back in 1948 when Israel was founded, pundits claimed the new country could never survive. Today, no one questions that. Israel is a land of stability and democracy in a region of tryanny and unrest.
Let us ask ourselves; "What kind of people do we think we are?".
Man is not free unless government is limited.
My philosophy of life is that if we make up our mind what we are going to make of our lives, then work hard toward that goal, we never lose - somehow we win out.
No mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology.
Of the four wars in my lifetime, none came about because the U.S. was too strong.
Our forbearance should never be misunderstood. Our reluctance for conflict should not be misjudged as a failure of will. When action is required to preserve our national security, we will act.
Protecting the rights of even the least individual among us is basically the only excuse the government has for even existing.
Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.
The ultimate determinant in the struggle now going on for the world will not be bombs and rockets but a test of wills and ideas - a trial of spiritual resolve: the values we hold, the beliefs we cherish and the ideals to which we are dedicated.
The United Sates has much to offer the third world war.
There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.
To paraphrase Winston Churchill, I did not take the oath I have just taken with the intention of presiding over the dissolution of the world's strongest economy.
Today we did what we had to do. They counted on America to be passive. They counted wrong.
We are never defeated unless we give up on God.
We have the duty to protect the life of an unborn child.
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we will always be free.
Within the covers of the Bible are the answers for all the problems men face.
You know, if I listened to Michael Dukakis long enough, I would be convinced we're in an economic downturn and people are homeless and going without food and medical attention and that we've got to do something about the unemployed.