MBVD: Skewering a Pack of AssIdiots

Monday, June 25, 2007

Skewering a Pack of AssIdiots

How to skewer a pack of pompous AssIdiots.
From the Political Debate Forum: [Use the link following the arrow to read the msg. I was responding to and gain access to the forum. ]
From aldajjjal Posts 819 Last 4:59 PM
To MontyKelley (SL) [Msg # 199684.137

199684.135 ]

Date: 2007-06-25T21:59:06

Primary rules for intellectuals:

ignore facts

ignore common sense.

If thats your definition of intellectual it explains why you are wedded to violence and opposed to any efforts for peace.

Typical straw man argument, employing an element of projection. It is Islam that embraces and sanctifies violence.

Peace is obtained by victory and maintained by superior strength and vigilence. The alternative is death, subjugation and slavery.

Fact: the Qur'an contains clear verses whose meaning is self-evident.

3:7 ...In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book [and those are the Verses of Al-Ahkâm (commandments, etc.)...

27:1 a Book (that makes things) clear

43:2 By the manifest Book (that makes things clear, i.e. this Qur'ân).

Tafsir Ibn Kathir: The Mutashabihat and Muhkamat Ayat: Allah states that in the Qur'an, there are Ayat that are Muhkamat, entirely clear and plain, and these are the foundations of the Book which are plain for everyone....(They are the foundations of the Book), meaning, they are the basis of the Qur'an, and should be referred to for clarification, when warranted,...The Muhkamat are the Ayat that explain the abrogating rulings, the allowed, prohibited, laws, limits, obligations and rulings that should be believed in and implemented.... [Emphasis added.]

In the Qur'an, Muhammad quotes Allah directly: "In it are Verses that are entirely clear, they are the foundations of the Book". In his explanation of the Qur'an, directly referring to the same verse, the most accepted Qur'an scholar verifies that fact. But Monty & Alex, being self appointed intellectuals, know better than Allah. They know better than an expert who spent his entire lifetime studying Islam's canon scripture.

They can not accept the fact that 9:29 contains a clear imperative to fight and kill "people of the scriptures" who do not submit to Islam. They can not accept that the command is within a fight until loop, with neither chronological nor geographical limitations.

The clear imperative to fight and kill Jews and Christians is confirmed by direct statements from Muhammad and the agents of his successor:

Bukhari1.8.387: "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."

Bukhari9.92.388: I have been ordered to fight the people till they say 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah' And whoever says: None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' waves his wealth and his life from me unless he deserves a legal punishment lusty, and his account will be with Allah!

Abu Dawud14.2635: I am commanded to fight with men till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is His servant and His Apostle, face our qiblah (direction of prayer), eat what we slaughter, and pray like us. When they do that, their life and property are unlawful for us except what is due to them.

Bukhari4.52.196: I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"

Bukhari4.53.386: ...Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, has ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or give Jizya (i.e. tribute); and our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:-- "Whoever amongst us is killed (i.e. martyred), shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever amongst us remain alive, shall become your master."...

We have two fight until loops contained in 8:39 & 9:29 respectively, which are verified and confirmed by five hadith. What does the most widely accepted Qur'an scholar say about them?

The Order to fight until there is no more Fitnah: Allah then commanded fighting the disbelievers when He said:

(...until there is no more Fitnah) meaning, Shirk. This is the opinion of Ibn `Abbas, Abu Al-`Aliyah, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, Ar-Rabi`, Muqatil bin Hayyan, As-Suddi and Zayd bin Aslam. Allah's statement: (...and the religion (all and every kind of worship) is for Allah (Alone).) means, `So that the religion of Allah becomes dominant above all other religions.'

The Order to fight People of the Scriptures until They give the Jizyah : Allah said, (Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the People of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.)... Allah commanded His Messenger to fight the People of the Scriptures, Jews and Christians, on the ninth year of Hijrah, and he prepared his army to fight the Romans and called the people to Jihad announcing his intent and destination....

We have the direct statements of Allah, quoted by Muhammad in 8:39 & 9:29. We have five hadith which confirm those statements. We have the same texts quoted and confirmed by Ibn Kathir. Alex, John & Monty have:

intellectual superiority

moral superiority

smug certitude

condescension

no facts

no logic

no reasoning

a priori they are right, all opponents are wrong and all evidence is irrelevant.

In a pig's!
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BCP

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My Favorite Speeches and Other Items of Interest

George Bush's March 28, 2007 Discusses Economy, War on Terror During Remarks to the National Cattlemen's Beef Association;http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/03/20070328-2.html
Mitch McConnell's March 15, 2007 Funding For Troops, Not Timelines for Retreat; http://mcconnell.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=270747&start=1
Ronald Reagan's June 12, 1987 Tear Down This Wall Speech; http://www.reaganfoundation.org/reagan/speeches/wall.asp
Vice President Cheney's March 12, 2007 Remarks at the AIPAC 2007 Policy Conference; http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/03/20070312.html

Winston Churchill Quotes

A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him.
Although personally I am quite content with existing explosives, I feel we must not stand in the path of improvement.
Although prepared for martyrdom, I preferred that it be postponed.
Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference.
Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver. The greater the general, the more he contributes in maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter.
Danger - if you meet it promptly and without flinching - you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!
I always seem to get inspiration and renewed vitality by contact with this great novel land of yours which sticks up out of the Atlantic.
I am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.
I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat.
I like a man who grins when he fights.
I was only the servant of my country and had I, at any moment, failed to express her unflinching resolve to fight and conquer, I should at once have been rightly cast aside.
If you have an important point to make, don't try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time-a tremendous whack.
In war as in life, it is often necessary when some cherished scheme has failed, to take up the best alternative open, and if so, it is folly not to work for it with all your might.
It is no use saying, 'We are doing our best.' You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary.
Moral of the Work. In war: resolution. In defeat: defiance. In victory: magnanimity. In peace: goodwill.
Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few.
Never, never, never give up.
No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism.
One ought never to turn one's back on a threatened danger and try to run away from it. If you do that, you will double the danger. But if you meet it promptly and without flinching, you will reduce the danger by half. Never run away from anything. Never!
Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.
Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.
The first quality that is needed is audacity.
The nose of the bulldog has been slanted backwards so that he can breathe without letting go.
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.
There is no such thing as public opinion. There is only published opinion.
These are not dark days: these are great days - the greatest days our country has ever lived.
They are decided only to be undecided, resolved to be irresolute, adamant for drift, solid for fluidity, all-powerful to be impotent.
True genius resides in the capacity for evaluation of uncertain, hazardous, and conflicting information.
Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival.
War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
War is mainly a catalogue of blunders.
We shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.
We shall draw from the heart of suffering itself the means of inspiration and survival.
When the eagles are silent the parrots begin to jabber.
When you are winning a war almost everything that happens can be claimed to be right and wise.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.

Ronald Reagan Quotes

"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so."
Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have.
All the waste in a year from a nuclear power plant can be stored under a desk.
Approximately 80% of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by vegetation, so let's not go overboard in setting and enforcing tough emission standards from man-made sources
Come here to this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, open this gate! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!
Concentrated power has always been the enemy of liberty.
Double, no triple, our troubles and we'd still be better off than any other people on earth. It is time that we recognized that ours was, in truth, a noble cause.
Facts are stupid things.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
Freedom prospers when religion is vibrant and the rule of law under God is acknowledged.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.
Governments tend not to solve problems, only to rearrange them.
History teaches that war begins when governments believe the price of aggression is cheap.
How can a president not be an actor?
How do you tell a communist? Well, it's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an anti-Communist? It's someone who understands Marx and Lenin.
I have wondered at times what the Ten Commandments would have looked like if Moses had run them through the US Congress.
I will stand on, and continue to use, the figures I have used, because I believe they are correct. Now, I'm not going to deny that you don't now and then slip up on something; no one bats a thousand.
In Israel, free men and women are every day demonstrating the power of courage and faith. Back in 1948 when Israel was founded, pundits claimed the new country could never survive. Today, no one questions that. Israel is a land of stability and democracy in a region of tryanny and unrest.
Let us ask ourselves; "What kind of people do we think we are?".
Man is not free unless government is limited.
My philosophy of life is that if we make up our mind what we are going to make of our lives, then work hard toward that goal, we never lose - somehow we win out.
No mother would ever willingly sacrifice her sons for territorial gain, for economic advantage, for ideology.
Of the four wars in my lifetime, none came about because the U.S. was too strong.
Our forbearance should never be misunderstood. Our reluctance for conflict should not be misjudged as a failure of will. When action is required to preserve our national security, we will act.
Protecting the rights of even the least individual among us is basically the only excuse the government has for even existing.
Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem.
The ultimate determinant in the struggle now going on for the world will not be bombs and rockets but a test of wills and ideas - a trial of spiritual resolve: the values we hold, the beliefs we cherish and the ideals to which we are dedicated.
The United Sates has much to offer the third world war.
There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.
To paraphrase Winston Churchill, I did not take the oath I have just taken with the intention of presiding over the dissolution of the world's strongest economy.
Today we did what we had to do. They counted on America to be passive. They counted wrong.
We are never defeated unless we give up on God.
We have the duty to protect the life of an unborn child.
We must reject the idea that every time a law's broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions.
We will always remember. We will always be proud. We will always be prepared, so we will always be free.
Within the covers of the Bible are the answers for all the problems men face.
You know, if I listened to Michael Dukakis long enough, I would be convinced we're in an economic downturn and people are homeless and going without food and medical attention and that we've got to do something about the unemployed.